Quick Outback/Desert Trip Report

Submitted: Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:16
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Hi All. Where back!

Covered over 7,000ks in 3 weeks very comfortably.

The trip covered the following ground.

Melb, Renmark, Flinders Ranges, Old Peak Ruins (South of Oodnadatta), Coober Pedy, Yalara, Kings Canyon, Palm Valley, Alice, Chambers Pillar, Dalhousie Springs, Simpson Desert via French Line, Birdsville, Innamincka via Haddon Corner, Broken Hill via Comeron Corner & Tibbooburra, Mildura, Melb.

In time I hope to have a website with photos etc. But this is a start.

As a quick summary I thought I'd note the things that were different to what I expected or things of note that happened.

1. Fuel economy was better than I had planned. We averaged 16.8Ltrs / 100ks towing a trailer which was pretty good. Best was 13.0 going up the Stuart with a tail wind. The worst was crossing the desert @ 26.4 (Mt Dare to Birdsville)
2. Track conditions were far superior to what we expected. Corregations were an issue in places but we were suprised by how good most of it was. That said it is easy to see how conditions can change in a short period. So this is definately not a comment on what to expect every time, we were just fortunate. The worst track was without doubt the 20ks off the Oodnadatta track into Peak Ruins - Its worth the effort but it took us over an hour to cover the 20ks. The best track was the Strzelecki as smooth as black top. The only issue on most gravel tracks was stones. The undersides of our trailers got absolutely hammered - any one with ideas on stone proofing?
3. Although I fully understand the need to protect the environment and cater for the less prepared traveller. I was disappointed at how civilised everthing was. You would have to work very hard to get lost, with signs everywhere and very well marked tracks. My GPS was really only a toy in the end. It saved us once from a wrong turn but was really only a novelty. The restrictions on camping etc were also an issue. We noted how there was far more freedom in the Vic high country than in central Australia. We tread lightly wherever we go and are completely self sufficient, able to camp anywhere, we were disappointed at how little choice we had in most places.
4. Our vehicles were well over spec'd for the trip. Although we were towing trailers, requiring a good solid vehicle, we saw soft roaders and 4bs straight from the factory crossing the desert. They didn't have much margin for error but it was a surprise to see a ML320 with road tyres pull into Dalhousie after an east to west crossing during the road closures after 25mm of rain.
5. Rain in the desert was also unexpected and created a surreal atmoshpere. We were going from dust to mud to dust - A lot of fun
6. We had only a few mechanical issues. Both vehicles run ARB Air Lockers both had problems with the ARB compressors. The bolt holding the small air tank on was cross threaded or over tightened and blew off. The other one had one of the thumb screws holding one of the locker solenoids loosen and fall off. I had a freak stone hit the drivers side door window and bleep ter it. The after market tinting held it together until I could do the 300k round trip back to Alice to get it fixed. On the way back I tested the bull bar on a Hereford steer resulting in only minor damage to the vehicle and a headache for the steer. The other vehicle also developed a very slow leak in the long range tank.
7. The desert crossing was easier than we expected. I'm well aware of the debate over trailers in the desert but our experience showed us that with a good offroad trailer you do far less damage than less prepared sole vehicles. We saw worse track damage from vehicles charging up the dunes than we left on even the most difficult dunes. We concluded that by having our lockers in and stopping (reverse try again) immediately when the wheel began to spin (this happend only 3-4 times) was far better than boucing up a dune at high speed leaving the track looking like a mogel run. I accept we had pretty good conditions because of the recent rains however the same was true at the eastern end where the track was much softer. And the well worn saying about tyre pressures is absolutely true. We started running 28psi and after I had failed a dune for the third time dropped to 22psi and never had another problem.
8. The desert was teaming with life. We saw camels, lizards and birds and a whole bunch of weird insects. Oh and millions of flies - Make sure you get a fly net.
9. On the question of tyre pressures we found the heat played a big role adding 5 psi from cold to hot. So we ran 35 on black top, 28-32 on gravel and 22 in sand. We calculated that we lost about 3mm of tyre tread for the 7,000k trip. I run Mickey Thompson Dick Cepek - My mate was running Cooper STT's
10. The best places we stayed were Palm Valley, Dalhousie Springs & Innamincka all great places to stay. Dalhousie was a bit hot high 30's meant we didn't get as much pleasure out of the spring. In the winter it would be fantastic.
11. The Kids DVD player & Gameboys are invaluable. There is so much nothing out there that asking kids to stare out the window for 1,000's of k's is asking for trouble. Having these boredom busters was a significant factor in our girls learning heaps, having a great time and enjoying the outback experiences.

Well if you have stayed with me until here - thank you. I realise that other people's trips are no where near as interesting as your own. I found this site invaluable in preparing for our trip so I hope if you are planning a trip these brief notes might be useful.

Gaz

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Reply By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:25

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:25
Gday mate,

Fantastic report. Did a trip of 7000k's some time ago in 2 and a bit weeks with no stress.

Makes my feet itchy...bugger the phones ringing, I was just about to go! ;-)

And as for hearing of others trips, I think it's invaluable info!

Good to hear you came back safe. Look forward to seeing a site!

Cheers

Chris.
AnswerID: 80035

Reply By: Mad Dog (Victoria) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:27

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:27
Thanks for sharing your experience Gary. I love reading this stuff.
AnswerID: 80036

Reply By: Member - NewMan (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 11:50

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 11:50
You'll have to let us know the outcome with ARB and the problems you experienced with their compressors.

Tony N.
AnswerID: 80045

Follow Up By: Member - Gary W (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 11:58

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 11:58
Good point. I bought a new compressor for the ARB reseller in Alice - They only had the one in the box not the airlocker unit. The only difference being the tank. I changed tanks and volla! all fixed. Now to get the $310.00 back from ARB. I expect ARB will honour their warranty but its going to be a good test. I'll keep you posted.

Gaz
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Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 12:41

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 12:41
As for the solenoid issue.
I am in the habit during my morning vehicle inspection of just checking that each of those thumb screws on the solenoids are tight before leaving camp.
Had a few loose one's in the early days, never had a problem since.
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Follow Up By: Member - Gary W (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:18

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:18
As will we from now on.

Gaz
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:32

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:32
Gday John,

Did you change the way the solenoid was fixed?

Cheers

Chris.
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Follow Up By: Member - Gary W (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:41

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:41
You can actually hold it down with a cable tie - which was the temporary fix.

I can't figure why its designed the way it is. Will check with ARB then try lock tight or something???

Gaz
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Follow Up By: Member - Chris M (QLD) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:45

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:45
Gday Gary,

Fair enough, there seems no real sure way to fix those solenoids when your getting shakin' to the billio.

Cheers

Chris.
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:53

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:53
Chris as Gary said you can use a cable tie or similar placed in front of the nut on the extended thread section.
I haven't found it necessary just a quick check for finger tightness and have no problem since.

It would just be prudent to check them maybe during lunch stops if you are traversing a particularly rough / corrugated road.

Question for Gary on tyres.
On all of your vehicles how did the rear tyres stand up to the gibbers etc.
We have had a few previous posts about chipping and cutting the tread particularly on the rears.
No brand seems to be immune from the problem your group seemed to have a few different brands so interested in your remarks.
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Follow Up By: Member - Gary W (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 14:01

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 14:01
We only had 2 vehicles both 100 Series LC's I ran Dick Cepeks my mate runs Cooper STT's We figured that both of us lost about 2-3mm of tread - Possibly the STT's lost a bit more but not noticably.

True the rear tyres took the brunt of the work. The Dick Cepek's are A/T's and have those little slits in the tread nobs. So mine chopped up a bit more than the Coopers. They both took a beating though.

Frankly I was suprised the STT's didn't chop up more given the more aggresive pattern on some sharp rocky tracks at 80kph+

Gaz
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Follow Up By: Wayne (NSW) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 18:34

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 18:34
John,
Just on the tyre issue.
With 2 Simpson Desert crossings and a Kimberley trip this year with vehicles set uo from almost stock to fully fitted out, the rear tyres do get chipped, cut and 99% of flats. I have yet to see a rear tyre not finish a trip with out some type of damage. I always put the best tyres on the back, the newer the tyre the less chance of a flat.
I will still run BFG Muddies because they just seem to wear better than the others, and this is what I have seen from not only the Cruiser and now the Troopy but from all the other vehicles that join us on the trips.

Wayne
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Reply By: Bob of KAOS - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:18

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 13:18
Excellent report of what must have been a great trip. Thanks Gary
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Reply By: Des Lexic - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 14:31

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 14:31
Sounds like you had a great time. I enjoyed reading your report and look forward to the photo's.
AnswerID: 80071

Reply By: Allan Mac (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 15:06

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 15:06
Great report Garry, Sounds like you all had a blast. Good reading
AnswerID: 80077

Reply By: Glenn (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 15:26

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 15:26
Hi Gary,

As already stated by others, thanks for the enjoyable read, it sounds like you had a blast. Lucky buggers : )

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Vince NSW - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 16:01

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 16:01
Glenn,
How many k did you do on your trip this year ?

Vince
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Follow Up By: Glenn (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 16:02

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 16:02
Hi Vince, nearly 6500kms.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Vince NSW - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 16:14

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 16:14
Sorry, I was just beinga bisy body but I thought from wht you said in Birdsville that your trip was covering some of the same area
Vince
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Follow Up By: Glenn (VIC) - Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 16:17

Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 at 16:17
Yeh Vince, I was going to go to Innamincka and access the Flinders from there, but the Walkers Crossing Track was still closed, so we went via the Birdsville Track.

Cheers
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Reply By: Willem - Sunday, Oct 17, 2004 at 07:17

Sunday, Oct 17, 2004 at 07:17
G'day Gary

Good trip report

"You would have to work very hard to get lost, with signs everywhere and very well marked tracks. My GPS was really only a toy in the end."................

Yes, you were either born too late or you have left your exploring too late. The only necessity for GPS systems is at sea or if you are in trackless country and access to the latter is few and far between. But a GPS and laptop are nice toys!

"We tread lightly wherever we go and are completely self sufficient, able to camp anywhere, we were disappointed at how little choice we had in most places"..........

Personally I tend to find campsites anywhere convenient. You don't tread lightly if you are towing a trailer. which brings me to this..."The desert crossing was easier than we expected. I'm well aware of the debate over trailers in the desert but our experience showed us that with a good offroad trailer you do far less damage than less prepared sole vehicles".

My opinion is that no matter what you say about towing trailers they are equally, if not more responsible for damaging tracks. It is a matter of physics. What tyre pressures were you running on the trailers? The rule of thumb escpecially in desert country is 14psi on the vehicle and 8psi on the trailer. But as you were driving very powerful vehicles and you mention 22psi(more like 28psi when hot) on your trucks you would not even feel the weight of the trailer behind you. As you said, you dropped your tyre pressures down after failing a few dunes....those attempts caused damage which is perpetrated by those who follow you. In the Simpson the towing of trailers is discouraged by National Parks. But more and more people assume it is their given right to tow trailers across wherever they want to go and to hell with anyone else...which brings me back to Treading Lightly....a misnomer if ever there was! The time will arrive when visitor numbers will be restricted to these outback places because of environmental damage and this will be sooner than later.

Just some thoughts for you to consider
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Follow Up By: jtb555 - Sunday, Oct 17, 2004 at 19:35

Sunday, Oct 17, 2004 at 19:35
Willem,

You project yourself as a very knowledgeable gentleman on all that is 4wd in the outback...

Could you pls tell us all where the picture of (I assume) your vehicle was taken, (apparently) sliding on a blacksoil road that has recently seen rain?

Tsk, tsk and you have the hide to comment on someone esle and their driving, in sand that can be blown about by the wind!

Thanks
JTB
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Follow Up By: Willem - Sunday, Oct 17, 2004 at 20:57

Sunday, Oct 17, 2004 at 20:57
JTB

No, not that knowledgeble but my own opinions and observations and hundreds of thousands of kilometres in the bush. Still learning though.

Pic was taken on Strzelecki a little more than two weeks ago. Got caught out in a rain band about 10km north of Monte Collino Bore. There was a section of 5k of bulldust turned to mud. The Roadtrain in the background had slid off the road, then my mate slid off and when I turned back to help him out the mud built up under the wheel arches and I was stationary. We sat there for 4 hours until the rain had stopped and the mud had dried out.

A hide I have and will continue to have. Sand gets blown about by the wind at the top of sanddunes. Corrugated axletramped holes at the lower part of the dunes become embedded and part of the environment unless washed away by BIG rains which are rare in desert areas. Smaller rains will firm up the sand to make for easier driving. Wrong tyre pressures, wrong driving techniques, the need to rush a dune and towing trailers across the desert all contribute to the degredation of the tracks. Put up a counter argument and I may consider believing you.
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Follow Up By: Member - Gary W (VIC) - Monday, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:50

Monday, Oct 18, 2004 at 08:50
Willem,

Thanks for your comments.

I can only speak from our experience. We were fortunate to be crossing after a period of rain so the tracks were firmer than normal for that time of the year. We didn't need to rush any of the dunes. I only had trouble on a few dunes and never had any trouble after dropping tyre pressures. 8 PSI seems way too low. I'd like to hear from more than one person that running at 8 PSI didn't stuff their tyres. Even 14 is too low IMHO. Please remember we are running 285's which makes them wider than average. Running 22psi was perfect for the conditions we encountered.

As for the trailer argument its one of those debates that never seems to conclude. Again from our experience good trailers with correct tyre pressures which distribute the weight (albeit more weight) over 6 points of contact did far less damage than many of the single vehicles we encountered. I would be genuinely surpised if there was any trace of our presence now from being there 2-3 weeks ago. If they restrict numbers - And I would support a program that restricted and required permit holders to show they had properly prepared vehicles etc.. - it won't be because of our trip.

Again - appreciate your comments and especially thanks for reading the report.

Gaz
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Follow Up By: jtb555 - Monday, Oct 18, 2004 at 19:03

Monday, Oct 18, 2004 at 19:03
Willem,

1.I never asked you to believe anything.

2.Excellent! Is used to work in an where all the roads were black soil. Further the roads are deemed CLOSED when they are wet!! It's people like yourself who drive on wet roads that tear them up and make them a burden for those of us who use them on our daily commutes about the place. Thanks.

3.You failed to mention anything negative about the clowns in the Mercedes (I think that was it) who had been driving on wet closed roads (gee I hope that was in this thread)?

4.A man who claimed to be wise once said 'The time will arrive when visitor numbers will be restricted to these outback places because of environmental damage and this will be sooner than later.' who could he have been? Was he discussing his own driving? Or having a go at someone else?

JTB
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Follow Up By: Willem - Monday, Oct 18, 2004 at 19:50

Monday, Oct 18, 2004 at 19:50
JTB

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about especially when it comes to CLOSED roads. I can't cpmment on hearsay but first and knowledge only

If you don't like my opinions or forecasts then so be it..

I don't particularly care about what you think.

Have a nice life and get out of your comfort zone.
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FollowupID: 339992

Follow Up By: jtb555 - Monday, Oct 18, 2004 at 20:34

Monday, Oct 18, 2004 at 20:34
Mr Kempen,

How do you come to know that I do not know what I am talking about? What I have stated is NOT hear say it is fact. You have taken what I have said attached your own meaning to it.

I know for a FACT that all of the roads in the Central Darling Shire, Wentworth Shire, Broken Hill and unincorporated areas of Western NSW roads are deemed closed when they are wet!

I'll do some homework and check on what they say about the Strez. Track when it's wet, I'll let you know what I find out.

Oh and by the way, what is my comfort zone?

Simply because another has a view that is contrary to yours it doesn't mean they are wrong!

JTB

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Follow Up By: Member - Russell S - Tuesday, Oct 26, 2004 at 11:37

Tuesday, Oct 26, 2004 at 11:37
Willem,
what you say may have some merit, but I was there on this occasion, following Gary some of the time (and vice versa), and I saw the lack of damage we did to the track. When Gary had a couple of attempts, there was no spinning of wheels digging holes, because he stopped and backed down immediately when it became apparent he wouldn't make it up. A couple of times I had stopped for something and was 10 minutes behind - you could hardly make out the wheel tracks. What we did see, particularly on the eastern faces of the dunes, were a lot of holes dug by (my assumption) heavily loaded vehicles with no trailer, open diffs etc pig rooting their way to the top. We usually put the air lockers in to make sure we avoided any wheel slip problems. I do think that going from east to west would be more difficult, and we may have had problems.

Incidentally, we had a good discussion with the ranger about our plans, and his only recommendation was that we might have a smoother, more scenic trip if we went around the rig road. He appreciated the capability of our setups, and at no time tried to talk us out of going.

Whether or not to take the trailer is a difficult one when the desert crossing is only part of a big trip. If you can't or won't take it across the desert, you don't have it all the other time and are limited to other less comfortable (IMO) forms of camping. If I was just doing the desert, would much rather not have the trailer to tow, but we weren't.

Bottom line - glad we went there, glad we went west to east, glad we had the conditions that suited us, glad we didn't listen to those who say you can't or shouldn't.....
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FollowupID: 340897

Reply By: jtb555 - Monday, Oct 18, 2004 at 18:43

Monday, Oct 18, 2004 at 18:43
Gary,

Got a bit side tracked there, my apologies. An excellent report, well thought out. makes me want to go out and do it myself...

Thanks
JTB
AnswerID: 80737

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